Liberation vs Assimilation, Adam, and Rock Music (long)
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Thursday, December 3, 2009 - 23:01
Liberation vs Assimilation, Adam, and Rock Music (long)
In 1993, the organizers of the gay rights March on Washington sent out pamphlets to participants pretty much ordering them into polos and khakis. The marchers were told not to embarrass the organizers of the march with flashy dress, or by dressing in drag, or other gender atypical attire. The marchers were supposed to look and act like mainstream suburban conservatives. The organizers didn't want to scare middle America. There was to be no radical Queer Nation liberationist sentiments expressed by the marchers. We were all going to be a nice amalgamated cohesive unit that sold well in Peoria.
This is the attitude that has taken hold of the mainstream gay rights movement. Play it safe. Be "softly sweet" boys next door that would be great housesitting while the Jones were away on their European vacation. So, even though 40% of homeless youth are GLBT, the biggest issue to the mainstream gay rights organization is the one thing that really makes gay people perfect for suburbia: marriage.
Don't get me wrong, I fully support marriage equality. But why is that the biggest gay rights issue? Why has the wealthy elite white gay males that run the gay rights organizations ever done a damned thing for gay homeless youth --- you know the ones who have no one to love them? The marriage fight is, after all, for those who have someone who loves them.
Back when I was a teen rock music was cool. The lead singer of the band would wail away with the power of a god in his vocals, the guitarist held his guitar down around his knees --- Eddie Van Halen style making the thing look like an enormous phallus. and it was meant to. And they had awesome outfits. None of these guys looked like they walked a cul de sac. They were sexy, crazed, maniacal entertainers who just blew you away, and the press would say things like "the girls all want to be with them and the boys wanted to be them." This was just the courteous way of saying these rock gods oozed so much sex that even boys got a sexual thrill from them.
And there was a great deal of erotoplay between lead singer and lead guitar. That's right --- sure as the sun would come up --- at a rock concert in the 80s, male on male sex play was on display. It was time for the guitar solo, and the singer had nothing better to do so he's slide over on his knees at the feet of the guitarist and swirl his head around at the giant guitar-phallus. Talk about simulated oral sex!
One bit of criticism that I hate about music today is the phrase: "pop excess." It's uncool and self-indulgent to be excessive with your music making today. Queen would be loathed today. You can't find more excess than Bohemian Rhapsody. You can't find more flash than Freddie Mercury strutting about at the end of a concert wearing a giant crown, holding a scepter in one hand (another phallus), and long bright royal red cape flowing behind him. Excess was effing awesome!
Then the 80s ended, and at least among white male musicians, something changed.
I love Kurt Cobain and his music. Nirvana was effing awesome! But I hated what he did stylistically to rock music. I turn on MTV in the early 90s and there was this awesome but hardly decipherable driving tune --- Smells Like Teen Spirit. Didn't understand a word that came from Cobain's mouth. But something was wrong here. This was a rock band and they were wearing tee shirts. A tee-f--ing shirt?
Elvis didn't wear a tee shirt. It's rock music. It's glorious. It's dramatic. It's unnerving. Will you please dress to match? This concert ticket costs a hundred effing bucks --- I want to see costumes! Wear a tee shirt on your own time.
Before you knew it guitarists were no longer wearing their guitar around the knees. All in the name of "keeping it real." Real? Rock music isn't real! It's out of this world. It's, pardon my stealing a phrase, "for your entertainment."
Rock music stopped being sexy too. It was toned down. It was down to earth. It wasn't sex, drugs, and rock-n-roll. It was just drugs and rock-n-roll. Actually now it's just feels like being drug down. But's its safe and friendly, and well behaved. That's not rock music is it?
It's as though the same memorandum that the mainstream gay rights organizers sent out to their marchers were sent out to rock musicians all across the planet.
Dear rock musicians, don't do anything that might lead someone to think you act gay.
Did you know that there's actually a website dedicated to teaching gay men to act straight. No, I don't mean Exodus International or any such gay reparative therapy offerings from right wing Christians. I mean a website by gay men for gay men. It's called straightacting.com. I tell you no lie.
This is an eternal struggle. Not just within the gay community or other minority communities, but throughout the history of human civilization. What is the best way to advance the cause of humanity? Of civilization? Well, for starters, we should all dress and act real nicely, we should all conform to a rigid set of mores, you know, assimilate and be a nice amalgamated cohesive unit that plays well in Peoria. Play it safe.
There are two atrocious stereotypes of gay men. Both are equally dehumanizing and while they are opposites of one another, they are effectively, just the flip side of the same coin.
One is the propaganda put out by the likes of the Family Research Council, whose mission is to distort legitimate research, take it out of context, and demean gay men as nothing but a bunch of sexually obsessed deviants that can't get enough sex. Did you know, for example, that the average gay man has 500 sex partners in a lifetime? (jealous aren't you?) Well, that comes from those freaks. This view denies, if you will, the gay man's platonic existence. Just a bunch of sex whores here, thank you very much.
The other view loathed even by the mainstream gay rights organizations even while it is perpetrated by them. You know, the one where gay men are completely non-erotic cutesy puppy dogs who dress so fashionably, have nice apartments, and will help you pick out a new dress, or redecorate your home. This is propagated largely by broadcast television (I'm looking at you ABC). This is dehumanizing because being an adult human being also entails being a sexual, erotically moved individual.
Then there is Adam. The Adam that GLAAD refused to defend today. The Adam that would've been banned from the 1993 March on Washington. The Adam that is too hot for ABC. The Adam that entertains. He dresses up, he's provocative, he wears his sexiness on his sleeve, he dares to be excessive.
This is the rock star the Disneys of the world have been out to rid us of since, well, Elvis. They thought they conquered the nonconformists. They thought even the gay people were on board with the McMansion Exurban lifestyle (than God the economy collapsed, that putrid dream is now dead).
Adam is banned from ABC not because of a formal complaint to the FCC. Do you know how many formal complaints are made to the FCC? Adam is banned from ABC because he doesn't assimilate. Adam is banned from ABC because he isn't a good gay guy. He's one of those gay guys that nascently out-of-the-closet gay guys squirm around with such epithets as "he gives gays a bad name."
Adam doesn't play it safe. He has resisted being part of the amalgamated cohesive unit.
In his first two releases, Adam has shown us his erotic side (For Your Entertainment) and his emotional side "Whataya Want from Me." He is, then, the personification of the complete adult human being. He is everything we should strive to be: unique and liberated.
Replies for this Forum Topic
Great read! I was a teen when Rock N' Roll hit the scene and I stayed a fan of every genre of rock to come along through the 60's 70's 80's and some 90's. Where did the passion go? What the hell is up with playing rock in your saturday morning dinging around the house outfit?
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Maybe it's a generational thing but if I pay to be entertained I am insulted if the guy is wearing a dull plaid shirt. (Sorry Kris)
@santabillie: I think you are pretty spot on.
@breathless1: The older generation should NEVER be in the position to tell the younger generation that their music isn't sexy enough, but that's how bad it's gotten.
Wow, a lot of what you said just echoed my own feelings but you said it so much better and then some points you made..just wow. Really insightful, really well-written, all TRUE. Thank you for sharing that with us. Ok I have some of my own thoughts.
I completely agree that this issue is (for the most part) over Adam not being a "good gay." You know what I said today to my friend, I feel like America is masking its homophobia to fit with the times, of course I'm just generalizing when I say America, but really, how accepting are we? I guess you could say we're accepting--that is, if you conform, fit every norm, and abide by society's rules of what is acceptable and what isn't. But if you deviate, like Adam does, as he is a gay man who is "out of the box" with his performance, attitude, etc. you're not only a deviant for that, you're also shunned within the own group you were placed in for being different--gay men. That's such crap!
Honestly, this whole thing isn't even an issue of homophobia, in my opinion, as much as it is an issue of rigid gender roles and traditional views/values/rules/etc. that people refuse to break from. I remember in one of Adam's recent interviews, he was asked about why people don't like seeing a man blur the lines of gender. Well, it all began with the Europeans arriving in the New World--no, really. Before the Europeans, hunting/gathering tribes like the Native Americans were shown to be much more egalitarian (because the women had a fuller economic participation). When the English arrived they brought with them the gender roles back in Europe and before you knew it, women were being executed for accusations of "witchery" (Salem Witch Trials) and ostracized for practicing freedom of religion (Anne Hutchinson) and over time, women and men became more confined to separate spheres, and within these spheres they began to adopt more and more specific, strict, rigid roles associated with their sex (formalizing the concept of gender).
As a gay man Adam automatically deviates from his role as a "masculine" individual. How can one be gay and masculine at the same time? Impossible! Secondly, Adam wears makeup. Here we go again, clearly Adam is not exhibiting very good masculine qualities. What more, Adam dresses "flamboyantly", that is with rhinestones, glitter, etc. As a showman, Adam is constantly pegged for being "OTT" or "over the top", like it's a bad thing, as a male, to practice a little artistic and self expression on stage. Adam you really are a disgrace to the male race! The fact that Adam took all of this--all of the qualities that are part of who he is as an INDIVIDUAL and presented them on the stage (literally) before America, is absolutely atrocious, abominable! In the year 2009, when the ideal man is thought of as a tall, built, suave, "rough", somewhat domineering chick magnet, Adam Lambert is a big smack in the face of tradition and closemindedness. And Adam...please, if you absolutely, positively insist on being gay, at least be a "good gay."
@Breathless 1 "One pill makes you larger. And one pill makes you small. And the ones that mother gives you. Don't do anything at all." I never got into any pills myself, smoked some weed but of course didn't inhale. Guess that's why I remember the 60s. I wasn't into a lot of rock, though I was really into Woodstock. I must have been almost 12 when the record came out. Concerts were cheap and I went to lots. Mostly middle of the road music but I did see Led Zeppelin, Jethro Tull , and the Stones.
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Thanks Robert. Its such a complex issue and you've explained it so well. Adam, as you know, has a multitude of, shall we say, more mature female fans. We spotted it immediately in Adam. He brought sex back to rock and roll. How can we NOT be fans? We miss it so much....oh, man.
We were the teens of the 70s and 80s. They rocked our worlds and we partied like crazy. (moms probably won't tell you about the acid at the concerts or when an oz. of pot cost $15...but they were there.) I'm talking Queen, LZ , Bowie, Nazareth, Jeff Beck, Robin Trower, Yes, Emerson Lake & Palmer, Pink Floyd. OMG, everyone had Frampton Comes Alive. (oh, do you feel like I feel?) And our "dudes" Mott the Hoople. We knew which rock stars were straight, bi, or gay. It didn't matter. It wasn't an issue for any of us. I'm talking more than 30 years ago. Maybe being yourself is simply sexy....being someone you're not is a lie. Seems like a lot of running up a down escalator to reach 2009. Now its an issue?
I should have eaten the blue pill....
Great post.
Wow. Thank you Robert1969 for the articulate and insightful post. It's very educational to me. It was time well spent for me.
I dream of a world where everyone is simply valued by who he/she is as a being.
Yesterday, a white, Christian, straight male, former colleague of mine visited us. He was not happy with his marriage, and was perplexed by gay rights to marry: "Now, why do they want to get themselves into such mess?" I got one potential answer from your post. Will let him know.
Robert, thanks for taking the time to write this up and thanks to the others for their posts. they are very insightful and informative. bravo to adam and all people just being the way they are regardless of their level of outrageousness or sensuality. Being oneself takes bravery, allowing others to be as they are apparently does too.
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Thank you for this. And thank you for all your wonderful points. I totally agree with you. I l also like how you also touched on GBLT homeless youth, that saddens me that family disown their kids because of that. I know NYC has a shelter for GBLT homeless youth, that made news when 'Golden girl" Bea Authur left money to them in her will. There should not be kids living on the streets!
Ding Ding - a must read.
Robert:
Thank you sooo much for your post!! I agree totally! You are very talented with your words! I hope Adam sees this!
I give Adam a standing ovation for what he did at the AMA's. Hes gonna bring back wild crazy sexy rock n roll .. maybe one step at a time but I feel a change is gonna come .. bring it Adam!! You wild sexy thang you!!
Hes a smart man and he knows what hes doing.
Thank you for a great post. Adam is just an awesome individual. You are right about how the rock gods acted in the 70s and 80s. But what kept the straight guys lovin them was knowing that as soon as the concert was over, there were hundreds of female groupies waiting to do them. And do them they did. Ask Gene Simmons. This is the problem Adam has with some straight men. My husband likes Adam and has been very supportive of my Adam addiction and the horniness it has caused so he has also been trying to cure me by letting me have sex with him as often as I need to. But ever since he watched Adam's AMAs performance, he gets "creeped out" listening to some of his songs. You know, the ones about sex. He knows Adam is gay. He just doesn't want to be reminded of what the entails sexually. I know Adam probably doesn't care. But my husband is the gatekeeper when it comes to buying concert tickets of which I want front row next time.
@magsmagenta: Excellent comment. I think you are spot on. I hate Tipper Gore for what she did to popular culture in the US. I also know that the Scissor Sisters, a mostly gay band from New York are huge in the UK but get nowhere in the US.
Robert,
Thanks for you post!
America is no better than the fundamentalist Muslims they claim to be fighting against. A democracy built on religious doctrine is a dangerous thing. When will America live by the rules it seems to want to impose on the rest of the world? Fee speech! Rights for all!!!
Another confirmation of my desire to fly to Europe when Adam is on tour there to see him live in concert in a place that isn't afraid of sexuality. Even though I'm born and raised in the USA I find the prevailing puritanical attitudes outrage me.
That was a fantastic post, it explains a lot of things to me especially as I am in the UK and we don't have the same problems with 'gayness' as you seem to have in the USA. In fact we have laws to protect people from all sorts of discrimination including homophobia which would mean that most of the rubbish that Adam has had to put up with would simply be illegal here. Gay Marriage is legal here and the age of consent for gay sex was brought down to 16 in 2000 in line with the age of consent for straight sex.
We have many well loved and talented performers and presenters and no one pushes the question 'Are you gay?' on people who don't want to discuss it. neither is anyone prevented from discussing their sexuality, or dressing flamboyantly and 'acting gay' Gay kissing has become positively commonplace even on programmes like Dr Who which is aimed at a faimily audience, And especially Torchwood which I happily watch with my 8 year old daughter recently featured a gay romance between Jack and Ianto. John Barrowman has a programme on the BBC Childrens channel and he could hardly be called Asexual.
People like Graham Norton, Alan Carr, Gok Wan, Paul O'Grady and his alter ego Lily Savage are some of the biggest names in UK TV and all without sacrificing their individuality sexual or otherwise, I remember Marylin Manson being interviewed on the Graham Norton show and calling Graham gay, thinking he was being very radical, and the audience just cracked up. Not to mention one of our greatest National treasures Stephen Fry (Who has now started following Adam on Twitter)
I also agree totally with what you say about Rock music in that it has become totally insipid and uninspiring since the advent of Grunge, A couple of years ago I was having a conversation with a girl much younger than me about music and she asked me what I thought about modern bands, I think she was expecting me to say that they were all too loud or something but all I could think of was that they are just boring, her face was a picture. I explained that I remembered when you watched pop and rock music on TV and it was shocking and colourful and fun and there is none of that now. Their idea of shock usually involves guns and violence and I'm not into that at all. Even people like Marylin Manson feel the need to name themselves after a real life serial killer and I was never comfortable with that.
I wonder how much Tipper Gore who was involved with the Warning stickers had to do with the Neutering of Rock Music, I remember at the time not taking her very seriously but maybe I was wrong. there is a line in 'All Time Winners' 'Where did all the pretty boys go?' Well I'd like to know, because I miss them.
Adam has a very scary double whammy in that he's a very sexy gay man, who is bringing sex back to Rock music, and not just cuteness like Zack Efhram or the Jonas Brothers but proper grown up sexuality, that is not just straight forward boy girl stuff but strays into the more kinky areas of cross dressing, bondage and S&M and other non baby making expressions of sexuality. none of which would be a problem here in the UK and Europe but in prudish USA ruled by the Christian Right has set them in a panic and now they realise he isn't fading away as most past AI contestants have they want to make him disappear.
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I really hope Adam sees this somehow..
This would make him feel really good to know that these words of wisdom are being used on his official site..
Thanks again Robert!!
Dear Robert,
Thanks for sharing your insightful comments. I totally agree with you in every word.
I am one of those rock & roll lovers who have been turned down by the bland rock after the 80´s and Adam has brought my love back.
Your essay should be made public because it is a must read!!!!
Congratulations!
Robert, Thank you for your impassioned argument for individuality and support for Adam.
I was at the DC March in 93. I missed the memo about poloshirts but remember the very earnest attempt to influence Clinton's newly minted administration. At that time it seemed almost anything was possible.
Adam is a change agent. He is positioned to shift our culture in a very positive direction during his lifetime. The wheels have already been set in motion. ABC's blacklisting of Adam will serve as a catalyst for that change.
@sarasmiles: Thanks. I'm glad to be of help.
@mamak: I appreciate the compliment. If you want to expose more people to this post, feel free to copy and paste to any blogs or forums that you go to. Just two requests:
1. give me credit, and link to this post.
2. Get my paragraph breaks right! A little pet peeve of mine. For some reason when one copies and pastes from one site to the next the paragraph breaks get messed up -- so just take the time to get my paragraph breaks right... Stories are much easier to read with proper paragraph breaks.
Adam Lambert Lvr 67: Wow! I'm glad you like this post so much! I'm very flattered by your enthusiasm.
I came back to see other comments on your insightful article. You struck another chord. American Indians(proper government term) are still being attaked today with the same prejudices as years ago. Did you know they just received the right to vot in 1973, we couldn't even vote unless our grandparents hid as white and assimilated. Now things are changing for the stereotype gay. They are a sexual. sensual whole person. Down with assimilation and hiding. Be who you are and stand for what you believe in.You say it so well!(As she steps down off her soapbox)
OMG this was amazing! Ur so articulate!
I hate when people have the need to put other people in a box, why can't we all be complex?
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Robert, thank you so very much for your post.
Robert, I highly respect your intelligence and honestly discussing this very important topic. You have educated us on this board and we need to get this information out there to the general public. Whatever your profession, you need to be a college professor or writer so you can teach the masses. Thank you, again.
@Robert1969
OH MY GOD and WOW!!!!!!!
You my dear are BRILLIANT!!!
Your post MUST go out onto the net everywhere
That just BLEW MY MIND!!!
I feel so much better about so many things about life right now.
ADAM MUST SEE THIS!!!!!!
ABC MUST SEE THIS!!!
hell!!! the whole effing world needs to read this!!!
Robert I love you!!!
You rock!!
Thank you for the wonderful post! Please come and join Planetfierce.com! We'd love to have you and your insight!
What a great post, Robert. My admiration for Adam continues to grow. This young man has so much on his shoulders...but he stands tall with a 'postive and moving foward' attitude. I hope people will just let Adam sing and entertain us...remember to KEEP YOUR EYE ON THE PRISE, Adam. I'll be glad when he finally tours here, but especially in Europe and Asia where they aren't so 'uptight' about sexuality.
Thank you very much for this comment. It was a very educational and interesting read. People who assimilate and try to fit in have never been the most influential or fascinating. I hope Adam can continue to be whatever he wants to be and resist these pressures from all sides trying to get him to conform.
THis was the greatest post ever!!! THe reason I even listened to Idol this yr was because finally someone was different and exciting!! He literally made me what to Listen to Music Again!!! THank God for differences!!!!!
@Adamiration: thanks
@Adamazing-Eyes: Yeh, I think that gay men have been taught to be ashamed of their sexuality so this is the response a sexy gay male gets quite often in the gay community. So much built up internalized gay shame.
@wblackma: Yes, the liberation vs assimilation fight is all around us in all communities. I'm from here in Louisiana where children used to get paddled at school for speaking French. Many Native American cultures used to have a very broad view of gender, they called gender atypical people "two spirits" and believed such people had a special spiritual connection. There were Native American rituals that couldn't be performed without a two spirited person involved. Then when Europeans came here and discovered this tradition, one of the first groups of people they attacked were Native American two spirited people, literally feeding such people to dogs. This so terrified the Native Americans that over time, they decided to assimilate, and now many NA tribes reject their history of admiring, respecting, and honoring gender atypical people, and have become more homophobic than the westerners who taught them homophobia. This is what assimilation has done to many Native Americans.
Robert -- this is such a great post. I've been tweeting the link this morning to Larry King, GMA, ABC....everyone I can think of.
btw: i love you. you just said everything that has needed to be said for a long time!
Last night I was talking with my husband about what you wrote, Robert, about the safe boxes the gay community AND the media want to put Adam in and he just doesn't fit. I started thinking about gay characters on mainstream TV and of course Will and Grace is probably the most prominently recognized in the US (even though it's only reruns in syndication now). Will fit the "straight acting" gay profile, every once in awhile he did something "kind of gay acting" but for the most part people saw him as a sort of "any guy" . Jack (or Just Jack) on the other hand was the so-out-there obviously gay guy but yet really seen as non-sexual. I was watching Chelsea Lately last night because I knew she was going to mention Adam and she had Ross Matthews (aka previously Leno's Ross the Intern) whose "gayness" makes Jack look practically straight. He didn't take issue with Adam's AMA performance but said he hated the song - and that he would much rather listen to Miley Cyrus' Party in the USA and it dawned on me - he is this very out there gay guy who just showed how totally non-sexual he is by acting more like a 12 year old girl than a gay man, who is actually AFRAID of the sexuality portrayed by Adam Lambert.
Thank you for really making me think and evaluate what the media judges to be "acceptable gayness". It makes me all the more determined to continue to support Adam and all he does and all he is.
You mean Adam is NOT a "sexually obsessed deviant that can't get enough sex."? How disappointing!!
On a better note, this is the single best explanation of the dynamics behind ABC's blackballing of Adam that I've read. My gut has been telling me that this was not due to an FCC complaint by a paltry 1500 ppl. Adam has more fans than that in a few square blocks of NYC.
This is about trying to tell an artist that he can be gay as long he "acts straight" Notice the lack of discussion surrounding the sexually suggestive moves he performed with women at the AMA's.
So does that mean one can be African-American as long as you "act white"? Guess I can be a Latina as long I forget how to speak Spanish and how to cook frijoles. So much for progress in America.
I keep coming to your post. So good to read. Bravo indeed
@TKat: Thanks.
@ foreveramom: Yes, we've not seen the likes of Adam Lambert in a long time. It'll do us some good to have someone who shatters the mold.
I loved your take on 80s rock music. I love the 80s hair bands. I went to see Def Leppard, Posion and Cheap Trick this past summer and nothing had changed. The pple on one side of me were stoned, the pple on the other side were fighting and the pple behind us had their own little kinda party going on. The music was sooooo freakin loud that you could fee the air hit you in the face everytime the drum hit a beat. 14th row. The bands rocked to a sell out crowd for 3 hours. We only sat during intermission and you held ur hands in the air and sang to every song. Security guards all around and as long as you were'nt killing anyone they did not care what you did. Damn I miss it. I think that is one of the things I love so much about Adam, he makes me feel that spirit of Rock n Roll again. SORRY I hope this post had something to do w/ this topic, I just got so excited reading about 80s rock.
Robert1969 All I can say is thank you. In all of the thousands of articles that have been written about Adam, ABC, the gay community "leaders" and music -- you have nailed it.
BRAVO!
Robert1969:
BRAVO for your post!!! I am of the age of TREX and Freddie Mercury and Led Zeppelin-- in the name of being 'politically correct', we have squashed all of the creativity and flash from rock music! Where's the flashy male pop star of today, the flashy rock star?!
We not only WANT, but NEED Adam! He fills the void in pop and rock music that has disappeared years ago.
I agree that there are MANY other gay issues of an urgent nature, that are more pressing than the marriage issue-- high rates of depression and destitute gay youth are just 2 of them.
Let us continue the discussions of which Adam has opened the door, it is our obligation to do so, IMO.
@MoovieBassets:
Thanks for the idea. I didn't know we could post blogs here. It's now published on my blog.
Hey, Robert, I just went to your profile to friend you. You should post this as a blog on your profile, so it doesn't get lost.
Very eloquent and a must read
Love your article, agree 110% on everything. And that is why we have crap on radio now, with the exception of Gaga and a few others, because they are too busy promoting the good little boys and girls wholets face it, have no more talent than you or me! I am fed up with the whole hypocracy of soceity. We have gone backwards instead of forwards. I am a straight girl brought up as a Catholic and I 'get' it, so why the hell cant everyone else. Oh, ya, just for the record, since I discovered Adam I am no longer a practising Catholic, I still believe in God, but the God I believe in would never shun such a beautiful person as Adam, God would b so proud of him, He is the result of one of his PERFECT creations. One to be admired and adored, not shunned! Shame on anyone else who doesnt think otherwise!
EQUALITY FOR ALL!!!! GOD LOVES ALL!!!
Robert, right
and i hate to use the word "normal' as if to say that if you have an alternative lifestyle you are not acceptable. i dunno, do you think the current generation thinks differently than my generation (i was a hippie flower child in the late 1960's - 1970's). I know how it was back then. now i see things as they are now. its different. i dunno, maybe its a generation that wants to be more politically correct than to march on Washington. ??????? i see the putrid "politically corect thing" taking over more than i like to see it. hey i refuse to say "african american" coz its stupid ,,, saying "black" is ok. and it is! but some would be afraid to say "black people"... coz they feel they HAVE to be politcially correct! hey if you want to say "black" say it coz you want to, if you want to say "african american" say it coz you want to and you feel thats more respectful.. but dont force me to be politically correct just coz its the "norm" or something.